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Living wage: How about $9 an hour? - Anhil8tor - 05-25-2006

Thats fine if companies want to pay it.. but fuck those people that drop out of school so they can make $9 an hour. At a time when big companies insurance premiums keep climbing and the coverage keeps dropping.. why not focus somewhere else?

link:
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/CollegeAndFamily/LoveAndMoney/LivingWageHowAbout9AnHour.aspx?GT1=8178

Living wage: How about $9 an hour? - BIRD33 - 05-25-2006

Do you understand waht the concept of a living wage is?Its not a greedy worker thing its a cost of living thing.

Living wage: How about $9 an hour? - Shadrach - 05-25-2006

I couldn't live on that. Not unless i put my kids to work too.

Living wage: How about $9 an hour? - Anhil8tor - 05-25-2006

BIRD33 Wrote:Do you understand waht the concept of a living wage is?Its not a greedy worker thing its a cost of living thing.


Yes I understand living wage. There has been talk about raising the minimum wage for years now. Most people complain they can't make it on $5.15 an hour but seek no higher education. I think most college grads start out at more than minimum wage...

Living wage: How about $9 an hour? - BIRD33 - 05-25-2006

Anhil8tor Wrote:Yes I understand living wage. There has been talk about raising the minimum wage for years now. Most people complain they can't make it on $5.15 an hour but seek no higher education. I think most college grads start out at more than minimum wage...

Should people have to go to college to be paid a wage they can feed their family on?Not everyone has the option to go.

Living wage: How about $9 an hour? - Anhil8tor - 05-25-2006

BIRD33 Wrote:Should people have to go to college to be paid a wage they can feed their family on?Not everyone has the option to go.


Like I said if companies want to pay more thats fine. The article is about a parking lot attendant... How much should a parking lot attendant make? There are other options for schooling though. It dosen't have to be college. I'm just saying I don't want to be forced to pay someone more than $6 an hour to do something that a monkey can do.

Living wage: How about $9 an hour? - BIRD33 - 05-25-2006

Anhil8tor Wrote:Like I said if companies want to pay more thats fine. The article is about a parking lot attendant... How much should a parking lot attendant make? There are other options for schooling though. It dosen't have to be college. I'm just saying I don't want to be forced to pay someone more than $6 an hour to do something that a monkey can do.

Why would someone work somewhere that doesnt pay them enough to live?Who gets hurt besides the owner of the garage if he has to pay a living wage?If you want to get rid of all the immigrants and make them legal this is the future.Prices of goods will rise in accordance.

Living wage: How about $9 an hour? - Anhil8tor - 05-25-2006

why?

I'd say because they are too stupid to do anything else. Take for example a high school dropout that has no interest in school at all. What is he gonna do? Goto McDonalds and demand $9.00 an hour?

Not likely.

Living wage: How about $9 an hour? - BIRD33 - 05-25-2006

Anhil8tor Wrote:why?

I'd say because they are too stupid to do anything else. Take for example a high school dropout that has no interest in school at all. What is he gonna do? Goto McDonalds and demand $9.00 an hour?

Not likely.

Are you above the people who serve you Mcdonalds because you went farther in school then them?I'm just saying they could not afford to pay electric, rent, gas etc... on $6 an hour which means nobody to serve Anhil8tors breakfast burrito.

Living wage: How about $9 an hour? - Anhil8tor - 05-25-2006

BIRD33 Wrote:Are you above the people who serve you Mcdonalds because you went farther in school then them?I'm just saying they could not afford to pay electric, rent, gas etc... on $6 an hour which means nobody to serve Anhil8tors breakfast burrito.


above.. nope. I also don't eat breakfast at McD's.

I think everyone has a fair shot at some kind of school. If you can't... be some kind of hard labor blue collar worker and bust your ass for your $9.00 an hour. If not.. get an education. They make grants, student loans etc etc etc for you to better yourself.

Living wage: How about $9 an hour? - BIRD33 - 05-25-2006

Anhil8tor Wrote:above.. nope. I also don't eat breakfast at McD's.

I think everyone has a fair shot at some kind of school. If you can't... be some kind of hard labor blue collar worker and bust your ass for your $9.00 an hour. If not.. get an education. They make grants, student loans etc etc etc for you to better yourself.

Visit an inner city if you want to see people without a fair shot at college. You've had it easy and assume everybody is like you.If you eat at Mcdonald is irrelevant. How will these places stay open if they can't get anyone to work for $6 an hour since it won't pay their bills? Intelligent college educated Mcdonalds stock holders would care.

Living wage: How about $9 an hour? - SanDog - 05-25-2006

BIRD33 Wrote:Are you above the people who serve you Mcdonalds because you went farther in school then them?I'm just saying they could not afford to pay electric, rent, gas etc... on $6 an hour which means nobody to serve Anhil8tors breakfast burrito.

Yes, I am above them. That is how it works.

And if I have to raise my employee salaries you have to pay more for your goods from me. The consumer pays. Remember your $9 oranges for legal workers arguement?

That being said, I am not agains a higher minimum wage, but fuck the people who do those jobs and have families. Those mimimum wage jobs are for kids, retired folks, and retards. Everyone else should improve themselves and get better jobs. Or work more hours.

You should not be having children if you cannot afford them. I have to pay for that shit, and it pisses me off.

Living wage: How about $9 an hour? - Raiden - 05-25-2006

SanDog Wrote:Yes, I am above them. That is how it works.

And if I have to raise my employee salaries you have to pay more for your goods from me. The consumer pays. Remember your $9 oranges for legal workers arguement?

That being said, I am not agains a higher minimum wage, but fuck the people who do those jobs and have families. Those mimimum wage jobs are for kids, retired folks, and retards. Everyone else should improve themselves and get better jobs. Or work more hours.

You should not be having children if you cannot afford them. I have to pay for that shit, and it pisses me off.

Thanks for bringing the correct perspective into this fucking entitlist argument.

Living wage: How about $9 an hour? - Anhil8tor - 05-25-2006

I have workers that will never make $9 an hour and they know it. They quit high school and decided to goto work. They aren't skilled in any trade and can hardly do manual labor.

Fuck them if they can't make it on $6 an hour. They should have thought about that before quitting school at 16.

Are you telling me no inner city kid whose parents are making $6 an hour ever make it out the ghetto? Of course not.. some do because they bust their ass to make it out knowing their only shot is school.

Living wage: How about $9 an hour? - BIRD33 - 05-25-2006

SanDog Wrote:Yes, I am above them. That is how it works.

And if I have to raise my employee salaries you have to pay more for your goods from me. The consumer pays. Remember your $9 oranges for legal workers arguement?

That being said, I am not agains a higher minimum wage, but fuck the people who do those jobs and have families. Those mimimum wage jobs are for kids, retired folks, and retards. Everyone else should improve themselves and get better jobs. Or work more hours.

You should not be having children if you cannot afford them. I have to pay for that shit, and it pisses me off.

There are tons of CEO's that never went to college.I dont look at education as some type of proof that I'm better than somebody since I know a bunch of book smart college educated people who just can't put it together in real life. I don't think you'll find me saying I support the $9 an hour wage in this thread just that I understand the arguement. This immigration debate which I think is just a big distraction from Iraq, indictments etc.. is going to cause all sorts of changes in the way we pay and treat low wage workers. If you want to make everyone documented and legal you can't turn a blind eye to todays cost of living and wages that keep people off the streets.I'm the guy who wanted to ignore this issue until we have other bigger problems settled.I don't want people having kids when they cant afford them too but welcome to America, a certain % are lazy and destined to be losers and we are going to end up paying for some of them but what can you do about that?If they didnt have kids I'd say fuck them too but you breed a whole even lower class type of person if we give them nothing.All we are obligated to do is pay workers a wage they can live on if they work a 9 to 5 job 5 or 6 days a week.To me it just makes sense for the employer in order to keep his employees somewhat happy and maintain a steady business.

Living wage: How about $9 an hour? - BIRD33 - 05-25-2006

Anhil8tor Wrote:I have workers that will never make $9 an hour and they know it. They quit high school and decided to goto work. They aren't skilled in any trade and can hardly do manual labor.

Fuck them if they can't make it on $6 an hour. They should have thought about that before quitting school at 16.

Are you telling me no inner city kid whose parents are making $6 an hour ever make it out the ghetto? Of course not.. some do because they bust their ass to make it out knowing their only shot is school.

More often than not the schools are dangerous, the teachers suck and its not the same type of schooling you or I got.What does it tell you that only a small % make it out?

Living wage: How about $9 an hour? - what? - 05-25-2006

BIRD33 Wrote:All we are obligated to do is pay workers a wage they can live on if they work a 9 to 5 job 5 or 6 days a week.To me it just makes sense for the employer in order to keep his employees somewhat happy and maintain a steady business.

how do you figure "a wage they can live on"?

$6 x 40hrs x 52wks = $12,480
that ain't gonna feed a wife and kid

$9 x 40hrs x 52wks = $18,720
I don't know if you could get financing on a double-wide with that either

I know you're not in favor of the issue and you're not putting specific numbers out there, but what level of comfort are we "obligated" to give them? just 'cause you couldn't afford rubbers I've got to pay an extra dollar to park so your girlfriend can stay home and raise your bastard kid?

if you and your wife both make 6 bucks an hour, you can probably afford a one bedroom apartment to raise junior in - maybe afford more than that in a rural area. sure, you're gonna drive an 87 Cutless in a lovely shade of bond-o, but if you put in an extra shift every month you can save up enough to take the family to a shitty motel on the outskirts of Myrtle Beach for a week during the summer.

Living wage: How about $9 an hour? - BIRD33 - 05-25-2006

what? Wrote:how do you figure "a wage they can live on"?

$6 x 40hrs x 52wks = $12,480
that ain't gonna feed a wife and kid

$9 x 40hrs x 52wks = $18,720
I don't know if you could get financing on a double-wide with that either

I know you're not in favor of the issue and you're not putting specific numbers out there, but what level of comfort are we "obligated" to give them? just 'cause you couldn't afford rubbers I've got to pay an extra dollar to park so your girlfriend can stay home and raise your bastard kid?

if you and your wife both make 6 bucks an hour, you can probably afford a one bedroom apartment to raise junior in - maybe afford more than that in a rural area. sure, you're gonna drive an 87 Cutless in a lovely shade of bond-o, but if you put in an extra shift every month you can save up enough to take the family to a shitty motel on the outskirts of Myrtle Beach for a week during the summer.

I'm not saying $9 an hour will feed a family.It is however closer to a living wage than $6.I'm not for it but the train has already left the station on this issue because of our new fascination with immigration.

Living wage: How about $9 an hour? - SanDog - 05-25-2006

I am not better than them because I am educated, I am better than them because I don't work there.

Seriously though, I worked a lot of jobs before I got to where I am. When a job I had did not pay me enough at 40 hours a week, I either looked for new one, or I worked more jobs. It is that simple. The 40 hours work week is ridiculous, but that is another subject.

As for the point that kids in inner cities don't have chance, again, I disagree. If an inner city kid tries in school, there are more free education opportunities than anywhere else. People are begging to give these kids a shot. Some of the kids take advantage of the opportunities and succeed. Many of them do not. They show no respect for the education, the teachers, or the knowledge. They look for the quick way out (gangs and such) and end up dead or in prison. I blame the parents. Who elses fault can it be?
Now, if you would like to discuss ways to prevent this social blight, then we can, but don't blame everyone else, blame the source of the problem.

Honestly, I have a really big moral quandry in this arena. I want to help the kids, but when all the other signals they get tell them not to excel in school, it is hard to get them to listen. What are we supposed to do? I have ideas, but they either really un PC, or they are violations of the parents rights. Tough situation.

Living wage: How about $9 an hour? - BIRD33 - 05-26-2006

SanDog Wrote:I am not better than them because I am educated, I am better than them because I don't work there.

Seriously though, I worked a lot of jobs before I got to where I am. When a job I had did not pay me enough at 40 hours a week, I either looked for new one, or I worked more jobs. It is that simple. The 40 hours work week is ridiculous, but that is another subject.

As for the point that kids in inner cities don't have chance, again, I disagree. If an inner city kid tries in school, there are more free education opportunities than anywhere else. People are begging to give these kids a shot. Some of the kids take advantage of the opportunities and succeed. Many of them do not. They show no respect for the education, the teachers, or the knowledge. They look for the quick way out (gangs and such) and end up dead or in prison. I blame the parents. Who elses fault can it be?
Now, if you would like to discuss ways to prevent this social blight, then we can, but don't blame everyone else, blame the source of the problem.

Honestly, I have a really big moral quandry in this arena. I want to help the kids, but when all the other signals they get tell them not to excel in school, it is hard to get them to listen. What are we supposed to do? I have ideas, but they either really un PC, or they are violations of the parents rights. Tough situation.


My personal opinon is the source of the problem is the education system in the inner cities and generally poor area's. Its no accident that you can't break poverty down into a black or white thing but can by education levels.I think one problem with your argument is that you assume these kids have been properly trained to be educated. Alot of these school systems fail kids from the start (grade school) because they don't have proper funding and good teachers that are held accountable that don't get these kids in the proper frame of mind to learn and just pass them along from grade to grade to get them out of their face. The inner city education system has been neglected for decades not years so the effect that has on kids and the adults they turn out to be is imeasurable. I agee that their parents are more than partly to blame but most times they came from the same education system that failed their kids so its this never ending downward spiral. I do think there are more oppurtunities than ever for inner city kids if they want it but you know how kids look up to their parents and they see them not giving a fuck because they never were educated and the trend continues until we fix inner city schools and we start properly educating a whole generation not just a couple.I think things are improving slightly but working in the construction industry I've seen more 20 million dollar suburban middle schools and a bunch of 40 to 60 million dollar suburban high schools while not anything close to that in the poorer areas.Its almost the you've got to spend money to make money argument.