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France denies citizenship to man with veiled wife - Printable Version

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France denies citizenship to man with veiled wife - leucifer - 02-04-2010

Quote:French authorities have denied citizenship to a man who forced his French wife to wear a face-covering veil, saying he had rejected national values of secularism and gender equality.

Seems fair. Thoughts?

France denies citizenship to man with veiled wife - Blondie - 02-04-2010

People actually WANT to be French? :confused:

France denies citizenship to man with veiled wife - Jimmy - 02-04-2010

who cares if some women want to wear a veil. This is what bothers me. This shouldn't be allowed.

[Image: Veiled+drivers+license.bmp]

France denies citizenship to man with veiled wife - BIRD33 - 02-04-2010

Yea France is a horrible country with its beautiful countryside and legendary food.

Anyway their recent stance on trying to ban the veil for women is kind of disturbing.I could see outlawing it being a mandatory requirment but if the women elect too I'm not sure what the issue is besides prejudice towards the muslim religion.

France denies citizenship to man with veiled wife - BIRD33 - 02-04-2010

Jimmy Wrote:who cares if some women want to wear a veil. This is what bothers me. This shouldn't be allowed.

[Image: Veiled+drivers+license.bmp]

In PA you can opt not to have your picture taken for your license if its against your religion.I think the amish started it.

France denies citizenship to man with veiled wife - leucifer - 02-04-2010

Jimmy Wrote:who cares if some women want to wear a veil. This is what bothers me. This shouldn't be allowed.

[Image: Veiled+drivers+license.bmp]

Yeah that is complete bullshit. And ID needs to be able to identify you, not your clothes.

But I think France has a point, it takes away from religious freedom, but being a citizen of any country means agreeing to certain things (the US citizenship form, for example, asks if you have ever hired a prostitute, or ever been a member of the Communist party). Requiring new citizens to respect laws around equality seems a little more salient than whores and an almost dead political ideology.

France denies citizenship to man with veiled wife - BIRD33 - 02-04-2010

leucifer Wrote:Yeah that is complete bullshit. And ID needs to be able to identify you, not your clothes.

But I think France has a point, it takes away from religious freedom, but being a citizen of any country means agreeing to certain things (the US citizenship form, for example, asks if you have ever hired a prostitute, or ever been a member of the Communist party). Requiring new citizens to respect laws around equality seems a little more salient than whores and an almost dead political ideology.

What if they are a muslim born in france?

France denies citizenship to man with veiled wife - leucifer - 02-04-2010

BIRD33 Wrote:What if they are a muslim born in france?

Then you're in, do what you want (unless France gets around to making it illegal). But for people requesting citizenship I think they have a right to say "as a country we require you to follow these rules if you want in".

France denies citizenship to man with veiled wife - BIRD33 - 02-04-2010

leucifer Wrote:Then you're in, do what you want (unless France gets around to making it illegal). But for people requesting citizenship I think they have a right to say "as a country we require you to follow these rules if you want in".

France is trying to ban the veil period for people who work in government buildings.To me its ok since its a rule for employees but I think the larger agenda is to ban it completely which is stupid.

France denies citizenship to man with veiled wife - leucifer - 02-04-2010

BIRD33 Wrote:France is trying to ban the veil period for people who work in government buildings.To me its ok since its a rule for employees but I think the larger agenda is to ban it completely which is stupid.

I'm torn. If France as a country (through majority population vote) want to ban it, it seems like their right. It does raise a sticky situation since existing citizens might not want to take off the veil, and might not be able to expatriate, so they might have to grandfather in some people? Which is just a clusterfuck to enforce.

France denies citizenship to man with veiled wife - BIRD33 - 02-04-2010

Its an article of clothing.Its stupid and only based on the current ill feelings towards a small minority of muslim people.France has issues with the immigrants changing what it means to be French.This is all backlash from that.

France denies citizenship to man with veiled wife - leucifer - 02-04-2010

BIRD33 Wrote:Its an article of clothing.Its stupid and only based on the current ill feelings towards a small minority of muslim people.France has issues with the immigrants changing what it means to be French.This is all backlash from that.

Personal feelings: The French are stereotypically arrogant and full of themselves, and this is stupid. Like you said, in gov't buildings is fine, and private firms it is up to them. You have a potentially valid security reason. Banning it on the streets and in people's homes? Ridiculous.

Having said that, I still think as a country it is their right to do it, but they will have trouble, and lawsuits, with existing citizens who don't want to comply.

France denies citizenship to man with veiled wife - JCW - 02-04-2010

Maybe I'm mis-reading the little blurb posted originally but if the issue was with the veil itself, SHE would be the one rejected citizenship. I think the fact that he forces it upon her, thus removing her right to choose, is what is preventing him entry. In that case, I can completely agree.

Of course, I'm one of those new-aged hippie chicks who think women are equal, that she isn't her husband's property and other "out there" gender ideas.

France denies citizenship to man with veiled wife - leucifer - 02-04-2010

JCW Wrote:Maybe I'm mis-reading the little blurb posted originally but if the issue was with the veil itself, SHE would be the one rejected citizenship. I think the fact that he forces it upon her, thus removing her right to choose, is what is preventing him entry. In that case, I can completely agree.

Of course, I'm one of those new-aged hippie chicks who think women are equal, that she isn't her husband's property and other "out there" gender ideas.

Now I am going to have to read the rest of the article. Thanks.

France denies citizenship to man with veiled wife - leucifer - 02-04-2010

Quote:Little is known about the man denied citizenship or his wife, as neither have been identified. News reports said the man is a Moroccan citizen and a member of the hard-line Tabligh missionary movement.

Besson's office said the man's application was rejected because officials had determined that he had deprived his wife of the freedom to go about with her face uncovered.


Ok, so based on that it doesn't sound like the woman was asked. I'm stretching here, but what if she is down with the veil?

France denies citizenship to man with veiled wife - JCW - 02-04-2010

If she was down with it, it probably never would have come up that he "forced" her to wear it.

It's pretty common knowledge that in Muslim culture, men are king and women are property, you would think the Muslim men "forcing" women to do a whole host of things would bar them from citizenship. I'm guessing they suspect this guy has ties to terrorism or something else and are just using this veil thing to discriminate legally without proof of his other mis-doings.

France denies citizenship to man with veiled wife - leucifer - 02-04-2010

JCW Wrote:If she was down with it, it probably never would have come up that he "forced" her to wear it.

It's pretty common knowledge that in Muslim culture, men are king and women are property, you would think the Muslim men "forcing" women to do a whole host of things would bar them from citizenship. I'm guessing they suspect this guy has ties to terrorism or something else and are just using this veil thing to discriminate legally without proof of his other mis-doings.

Here's the other side. A single woman, who opts to wear the full burqa.

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/02/04/france.burqa.ban/

France denies citizenship to man with veiled wife - Jimmy - 02-04-2010

leucifer Wrote:Here's the other side. A single woman, who opts to wear the full burqa.

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/02/04/france.burqa.ban/



Your paranoid government has put you on a watch list for googling these things. Expect your next flight to take a little longer.

France denies citizenship to man with veiled wife - leucifer - 02-04-2010

Jimmy Wrote:Your paranoid government has put you on a watch list for googling these things. Expect your next flight to take a little longer.

And me being a foreign national too. This is going to get ugly.

France denies citizenship to man with veiled wife - JCW - 02-04-2010

I never said I agreed with banning the burqa. That includes for husbands who "force it". I can definitely see her side as a woman who chooses to wear it. And if a chick is dumb enough in 2010 society to still marry a domineering man who'd "force" her to do anything kinda deserves what she gets, I guess.

As I said before, I think this is all a thin cover for wanting to deny him citizenship for other reasons.