[BIRD33]

Well, no question, the one thing that came out of all of that mess was the now obvious stupidity of all of our intel, spies and security advisors. I'm not sure that just finding out how bad their intel was, isn't one positive that might keep us from really fucking up one day.

And, I'll tell you something else that I have always felt about Bush. I think the whole "religious" thing is just a face he puts on himself to play the role of president. Just like him buying that ranch in Crawford. He's not a rancher and never has been. He wanted to be perceived more as an LBJ than as an ivy league guy. He might pray and all, but I don't think for a second that he is nearly as religious as he plays up to be.

I still have high hopes that the Iraq thing will ultimately end up as a positive. It has cost us way too much money and lives, but in the end (which may be a LONG time from now) I think it will be for the better. At least I hope it will be.

You make a good point about bush and his ranch.He definitely is a guy who will tell you he's doing something for one reason but its actually because of some hidden agenda.

I never wanted to go to Iraq but now that we're there and we've wasted peoples lives over it I'm in the camp that wants to see it end in a positive way.I'm not willing though to spend another 10 years trying.I say give it two more years tops and get the hell out.I'm not for permanent bases either.I think that sends the wrong message to the middle east and plays right into the message that bin laden has spread that the US wants to take over the middle east for its oil.