[Anhil8tor]

Whats your issue with laid off workers?

Are they all poor blacks in your mind?

So none of those food stamps will be used for food?

Whats it like being perfect?

I have no issue with laid off workers.

They are not all poor black. I know alot of people who were laid off.

Some are. One of my co-workers here buys $200 worth of food stamps from her cousin for $100 cash because she needs beer, liquor and cigs. I know that happens alot more than anyone thinks.

I'm not perfect. I live within my means. I do the best I can with what I have. My house isn't as big as a few of my friends but I can afford my house notes. I think we shouldn't bail out people who bought houses and can't afford to pay them.

[BIRD33]

I have no issue with laid off workers.

They are not all poor black. I know alot of people who were laid off.

Some are. One of my co-workers here buys $200 worth of food stamps from her cousin for $100 cash because she needs beer, liquor and cigs. I know that happens alot more than anyone thinks.

I'm not perfect. I live within my means. I do the best I can with what I have. My house isn't as big as a few of my friends but I can afford my house notes. I think we shouldn't bail out people who bought houses and can't afford to pay them.

So whats your problem with or why are you equating laid off workers to poor people?You realize thats what you are complaining about when you say you have a problem with food stamps and unemployment getting extended during this rough time.

[Anhil8tor]

Its fine but our main problem is people living beyond their means. Everyone I know that was laid off with an oilfield company here has already found another job. People that want to work will. So I think extending food stamps and unemployment will make people look less. Why when you can get a check for nothing for longer?

I'm more worried about the tax cuts when they expire. I don't see how the stimulus plan will work but I hope it does. If our economy gets rolling again we will get even busier. I think Louisiana is the exception here.

If you are worried about creating jobs why not bring back some of our factories? Raise tariffs on anything that comes in from overseas and try to get people back into manufacturing. You are in construction right bird? What do you buy that is american made?

[Flumper Barflusterbutt]

Talking to the father of one of my daughter's friends last night, who's a bridge builder and worried about the LARGE company he works for going under. Apparently they sent each employee a letter which talked about the effects of the Obama Stimulus package now under debate. All of the proposed construction projects in the package are going to be open for bid to unionized companies only. So now they are looking at either mass layoffs or unionizing their entire workforce.

I'm telling you, the road construction industry in Texas is suffering major. I was talking to a friend of mine the other day that is a large bridge builder in this area and he told me that he has two jobs going right now and nothing else on the books. He said the Texas highway letting (monthly where they bid all the jobs in the state) is on hold now waiting on the stimulus plan to pass.

What I am afraid of, is that the state and local public works are going to slow play things now hoping that they get fed money.

But, I am going to call bullshit on the "union only" thing. I know they won't bid work in texas that is union only. There aren't much for unions down here. That would never fly.

[BIRD33]

I'm telling you, the road construction industry in Texas is suffering major. I was talking to a friend of mine the other day that is a large bridge builder in this area and he told me that he has two jobs going right now and nothing else on the books. He said the Texas highway letting (monthly where they bid all the jobs in the state) is on hold now waiting on the stimulus plan to pass.

What I am afraid of, is that the state and local public works are going to slow play things now hoping that they get fed money.

But, I am going to call bullshit on the "union only" thing. I know they won't bid work in texas that is union only. There aren't much for unions down here. That would never fly.

Your gonna have a hell of a time convincing people to pour millions of dollars into road construction projects where the companies doing them are possibly using illegal aliens.This is about jobs for americans in the short term.

[Flumper Barflusterbutt]

Your gonna have a hell of a time convincing people to pour millions of dollars into road construction projects where the companies doing them are possibly using illegal aliens.This is about jobs for americans in the short term.

I don't think so. Labor makes up a very small percentage of the cost of a large road project. The jobs that are created and/or not lost, are the people that make and sell reinforcing steel, concrete, truck drivers, rock crushers, cement manufacturers, dowel bar makers, and on and on and on and on and on. Very little of that money for a $50 million dollar highway project would go into the pockets of mexicans on the crews. So that isn't going to be a hard sell at all.

From what I can gather, what Obama is hoping for (to create a no lose situation, which is the kind of guy that he strikes me as) is to build things that need to be built anyway. For example a levee around New Orleans. Although that has already been done now, that is a good example. Everyone knows there are thousands of bridges in the US that are way beyond their life expectancy. The interstate system has outlived its original life cycle by double.

[Flumper Barflusterbutt]

Your gonna have a hell of a time convincing people to pour millions of dollars into road construction projects where the companies doing them are possibly using illegal aliens.This is about jobs for americans in the short term.

And, I hope you know that the bulk of the labor force building schools is made up of mexican labor, right? Unless they have started building schools without brick, roofs, floors or parking lots.

[BIRD33]

Its fine but our main problem is people living beyond their means. Everyone I know that was laid off with an oilfield company here has already found another job. People that want to work will. So I think extending food stamps and unemployment will make people look less. Why when you can get a check for nothing for longer?

I'm more worried about the tax cuts when they expire. I don't see how the stimulus plan will work but I hope it does. If our economy gets rolling again we will get even busier. I think Louisiana is the exception here.

If you are worried about creating jobs why not bring back some of our factories? Raise tariffs on anything that comes in from overseas and try to get people back into manufacturing. You are in construction right bird? What do you buy that is american made?

I'm really kind of appalled at your thinking.Because everyone you know that got laid off has found a job that means everyone can?We're at record number unemployed right now.Your thinking would be fine in normal times but this is an economic crisis of huge proportions.Take a look outside your bubble.


We can't compete in factory work on commodity type items anymore.Any country barely out of poverty can kill us because they don't do the safety\environmental requirements we do which adds cost and they don't have to pay shit.Crying about it is a waste of time.If you want to raise tariffs get ready to pay $15K for that TV you paid 2K for last week.

I'm in construction sales.I don't buy things I rep them.All of them are american and all of them manufacture a portion of what they make here except one who is 100% american made.Most have the components made in mexico or china cheaper than they could do and they put them together in the states.This buy american rally cry is crap.We've all been pretending we are buying american when only a certain % has to be made here to qualify as american made.

We can't pretend like we can make TV's and furniture cheaper.Thats why there is 4 billion in job training in the package which you have a problem with.People need computer skills to make it today and if you can't even afford one you are screwed.

[BIRD33]

And, I hope you know that the bulk of the labor force building schools is made up of mexican labor, right? Unless they have started building schools without brick, roofs, floors or parking lots.

Not up north.Unions rule here.Even the non unions have white guys.the landscaping and demolition maybe but not the mechanical portion of it.

[Flumper Barflusterbutt]

Not up north.Unions rule here.Even the non unions have white guys.the landscaping and demolition maybe but not the mechanical portion of it.

Well, the mechanical, electrical, plumbing, etc wouldn't be done by mexican labor here either. Just the concrete, tile, brick, roof, framing, foundation, etc. But no unions around here.

[Anhil8tor]

I'm really kind of appalled at your thinking.Because everyone you know that got laid off has found a job that means everyone can?We're at record number unemployed right now.Your thinking would be fine in normal times but this is an economic crisis of huge proportions.Take a look outside your bubble.


We can't compete in factory work on commodity type items anymore.Any country barely out of poverty can kill us because they don't do the safety\environmental requirements we do which adds cost and they don't have to pay shit.Crying about it is a waste of time.If you want to raise tariffs get ready to pay $15K for that TV you paid 2K for last week.

I'm in construction sales.I don't buy things I rep them.All of them are american and all of them manufacture a portion of what they make here except one who is 100% american made.Most have the components made in mexico or china cheaper than they could do and they put them together in the states.This buy american rally cry is crap.We've all been pretending we are buying american when only a certain % has to be made here to qualify as american made.

We can't pretend like we can make TV's and furniture cheaper.Thats why there is 4 billion in job training in the package which you have a problem with.People need computer skills to make it today and if you can't even afford one you are screwed.

Thats fine. So us sending our factories overseas created jobs for them?

[BIRD33]

Thats fine. So us sending our factories overseas created jobs for them?

American manufacturers are the ones who demanded cheaper screws and went where the free market took them and that hurt other american business's.We are to blame for our own problems and the cats already out of the bag.You understand you are basically saying capitalism doesnt work if you want to turn towards protectionism?

[Anhil8tor]

American manufacturers are the ones who demanded cheaper screws and went where the free market took them and that hurt other american business's.We are to blame for our own problems and the cats already out of the bag.You understand you are basically saying capitalism doesnt work if you want to turn towards protectionism?

yeah you are right. Lets keep our cheap goods and keep printing money until this recession is over.

[snarg]

let's build a big wall around america!!!!!!!!

as far as union jobs, when the feds are involved, if no union workers are there, it doesn't make a difference
the contractors, by law, have to pay the "going rate", which is union scale
granted, a lot of companies try to skirt this, but if they get caught they are fucked

unless, of course, this has also changed since i was involved with this type of thing a hundred yrs ago

[BIRD33]

let's build a big wall around america!!!!!!!!

as far as union jobs, when the feds are involved, if no union workers are there, it doesn't make a difference
the contractors, by law, have to pay the "going rate", which is union scale
granted, a lot of companies try to skirt this, but if they get caught they are fucked

unless, of course, thisd has also changed since i was involved with this type of thing a hundred yrs ago

Company I deal with got caught and are banned from doing any work in Philadelphia for a few years.Was in the paper and everything.Its not killing them because theres almost more business outside the city but it takes them out of some high profile projects.

[snarg]

it's good to know i am not 100% obssolete

[Flumper Barflusterbutt]

let's build a big wall around america!!!!!!!!

as far as union jobs, when the feds are involved, if no union workers are there, it doesn't make a difference
the contractors, by law, have to pay the "going rate", which is union scale
granted, a lot of companies try to skirt this, but if they get caught they are fucked

unless, of course, this has also changed since i was involved with this type of thing a hundred yrs ago

Well, not true. If fed money is involved we have to pay Davis Bacon wages. Which most of us do anyway, because most cities use Davis Bacon wages for their minimum pay. And also, on Fed jobs, you have to turn in weekly certified payrolls conducted by a certified accountant. And they can do spot checks on site and interview employees, which they do fairly regularly.

I don't know of anyone that tries to skirt the wage requirements.

At least that's how it works in Texas.

[snarg]

please enlighten us davis bacon wages
thanks

[Flumper Barflusterbutt]

please enlighten us davis bacon wages
thanks

seriously? Davis Bacon was some kind of act passed by congress like a minimum wage scale for projects that involve federal money. They update those wage scales regularly. Maybe once a year.

http://www.dol.gov/oasam/regs/statutes/276a.htm

They always list the wages to be used within the specifications.

[Flumper Barflusterbutt]

I think Davis Bacon also mandates that you have to pay overtime as 1.5 and not "comp time".

They list all of the work categories and an hourly wage scale for each. Example

Laborer $8.75
Concrete Finisher $9.75
Motor Grader Operator $10.25
etc.