[WoolyGoat]

According to the Mitchell Commission report, here are players mentioned and how they are linked to performance enhancing substances:


Information Learned During this Investigation Concerning BALCO and Major League Baseball (8 players/ 3 active in MLB in 2007)
From the report: "I requested interviews of all the major league players who had been publicly implicated in the BALCO case."

• Marvin Benard
  Barry Bonds
  Bobby Estalella
  Jason Giambi
  Jeremy Giambi
  Benito Santiago
  Gary Sheffield
  Randy Velarde

Information Regarding Purchases or Use of Performance Enhancing Substances by Players in Major League Baseball (53 players/ 18 active in MLB in 2007)
From the report: "The following discussion is organized in roughly chronological order. Records do not exist to document every transaction described by witnesses. [Kirk] Radomski stated that, with one exception noted below, the payments he received from professional baseball players were for performance enhancing substances, as opposed to personal training or other services, and this assertion was confirmed by those players who agreed to speak with us about their dealings with him."

• Lenny Dykstra
  David Segui
  Larry Bigbie
  Brian Roberts
  Jack Cust
  Tim Laker
  Josias Manzanillo
  Todd Hundley
  Mark Carreon
  Hal Morris
  Matt Franco
  Rondell White
  Roger Clemens
  Andy Pettitte
  Chuck Knoblauch
  Jason Grimsley
  Gregg Zaun
  David Justice
  F.P. Santangelo
  Glenallen Hill
  Mo Vaughn
  Denny Neagle
  Ron Villone
  Ryan Franklin
  Chris Donnels
  Todd Williams
  Phil Hiatt
  Kevin Young
  Mike Lansing
  Cody McKay
  Kent Mercker
  Adam Piatt
  Miguel Tejada
  Jason Christiansen
  Mike Stanton
  Stephen Randolph
  Jerry Hairston, Jr.
  Paul Lo Duca
  Adam Riggs
  Bart Miadich
  Fernando Vina
  Kevin Brown
  Eric Gagné
  Mike Bell
  Matt Herges
  Gary Bennett, Jr.
  Jim Parque
  Brendan Donnelly
  Chad Allen
  Jeff Williams
  Howie Clark
  Exavier "Nook" Logan

Alleged Internet Purchases of Performance Enhancing Substances By Players in Major League Baseball (16 players, 8 active in MLB in 2007)
From the report: "Since the initial news reports of the raid by New York and Florida law enforcement officials on Signature Pharmacy and several rejuvenation centers, the names of several current and former major league players have appeared in the media as alleged purchasers of performance enhancing substances through these operations. These include:"

• Rick Ankiel
  Paul Byrd
  Jay Gibbons
  Troy Glaus
  Jose Guillen
  Jerry Hairston Jr.
  Gary Matthews, Jr.
  Scott Schoeneweis
  David Bell
  Jose Canseco
  Jason Grimsley
  Darren Holmes
  John Rocker
  Ismael Valdez
  Matt Williams
  Steve Woodard

[Paddy]

Todd Hundley

I hope his cock falls off.

[WoolyGoat]

I hope his cock falls off.

I feel the same way about:

Nomar
Clemens
Gagne
Pettitte
Knoblauch




also, :lool: at Exavier "Nook" Logan. Exavier. fuck.

[BIRD33]

Knobloch got off the roids and couldnt throw to first base anymore.

[cLaY]

John Rocker? No Way!!!

Good to see no "real" Atlanta Braves are on that list.

[Anhil8tor]

Bobby sure is happy

[BIRD33]

Whats up with the gown?Did he do the commencement speech at a beauty school?

[WoolyGoat]

So was Dan Duquette right when he said that Clemens was "in the twilight of his career" before he went to Toronto?

[BIRD33]

My take (which will be your take) is that this wasnt a federal investigation so its not like there is any hard evidence that will keep Clemens out of the hof.MLB doing the investigation doesnt seem to have enough weight to warrant the destruction of a guys reputation.The guys who's checks they have copies of is a different story but some clubhouse guy saying he injected clemens buttocks isnt that hard evidence you'd like if you were going to destroy someones legacy.I see a lot of lawsuits from the players side against MLB and the people that ratted on them.

I'm also drunk from the night before and I've come to the realization that I love Molson canadian and that cougars love a young virile guy who's in shape like myself.

[WoolyGoat]

I think the players' union is a disgrace.

[BIRD33]

Its a union and if you give an inch its gone forever so I'm not that upset with them.You'd think the best interest of the game would be in the thought process but its really just a labor union.

[Anhil8tor]

How about bonds trainer going to jail rather than selling bonds out... and clemens gopher rolling over him for nothing...

[WoolyGoat]

Its a union and if you give an inch its gone forever so I'm not that upset with them.You'd think the best interest of the game would be in the thought process but its really just a labor union.

It's blindly protecting the guilty/dirty players (a minority) while at the same time telling the innocent/clean players (a majority) to keep quiet.

I have to believe that the players who are legitimately clean want the sport cleaned up too. If you're Frank Thomas, don't you want guys like Bonds and Sheffield taken care of? If you're Curt Schilling, don't you want guys like Clemens and Pettitte disciplined? Maybe Schilling is a bad example because he's an elitist loud mouth, but it just seems like the union doesn't really care about the players who are clean, which is probably 75 to 80% of the league.

[BIRD33]

It's blindly protecting the guilty/dirty players (a minority) while at the same time telling the innocent/clean players (a majority) to keep quiet.

I have to believe that the players who are legitimately clean want the sport cleaned up too. If you're Frank Thomas, don't you want guys like Bonds and Sheffield taken care of? If you're Curt Schilling, don't you want guys like Clemens and Pettitte disciplined? Maybe Schilling is a bad example because he's an elitist loud mouth, but it just seems like the union doesn't really care about the players who are clean, which is probably 75 to 80% of the league.

You can't ignore the fact that the homerun era with Mcguire and Sosa which was totally steroid driven pretty much saved the game after the strike and increased salaries for all players regardless if they were clean or not.If I was a lawyer which is basically what unions are and a client came up to me and said someones doing an investigation that will have no actual legal ramifications and at worst will result in bad publicity I would tell them you have nothing to gain by talking to them.

[WoolyGoat]

there are clean players who should own records the do not currently have

there are clean players who are unfairly labeled as steroid/ped users

there are clean players who lost jobs (or never got jobs) to steroid/ped users


I agree the '98 homerun chase saved baseball and definitely helped along the increased salaries and revenue, and that's why MLB turned a blind eye to it. But I'd imagine there's a large majority of players who are sick and tired of having every achievement questioned because the entire era is tainted. If I'm Manny Ramirez or Ryan Howard or ARod (assuming they're clean) I'm standing up and screaming "hey, don't talk to me about the 'steroid era' I did this (against juiced pitchers!) without cheating."

[BIRD33]

there are clean players who should own records the do not currently have

there are clean players who are unfairly labeled as steroid/ped users

there are clean players who lost jobs (or never got jobs) to steroid/ped users


I agree the '98 homerun chase saved baseball and definitely helped along the increased salaries and revenue, and that's why MLB turned a blind eye to it. But I'd imagine there's a large majority of players who are sick and tired of having every achievement questioned because the entire era is tainted. If I'm Manny Ramirez or Ryan Howard or ARod (assuming they're clean) I'm standing up and screaming "hey, don't talk to me about the 'steroid era' I did this (against juiced pitchers!) without cheating."

The union works to insure players salaries are high and they have good benefits, thats it.Concerns about records isnt their job and if players were so concerned they could have spoke up,remember schilling talking all tough and then pussing out in front of congress.They all knew what was going on and if they had a problem with it they should have said something.I bet if you took a survey of the players asking if you could would you erase the steroid era but decrease your pay by 30% they wouldnt do it.Don't kid yourself that they are so high and mighty.

[WoolyGoat]

I get it, so when Belichick screws around with the injury report, he's a self-centered cheater, but when Fehr, Orza, and the rest of the union protect players who are using ILLEGAL drugs they're just doing their jobs?

Belichick is just trying to win football games, and the Union is just trying to maximize contracts, right?

[BIRD33]

I get it, so when Belichick screws around with the injury report, he's a self-centered cheater, but when Fehr, Orza, and the rest of the union protect players who are using ILLEGAL drugs they're just doing their jobs?

Belichick is just trying to win football games, and the Union is just trying to maximize contracts, right?

Sometimes I wonder if you're posting from a mental institution next to a Belichek shrine with cut out pictures of him.

I mean what the fuck are you talking about? The players union is not the DEA.Their job is to represent the players not police them.To my knowlege they've never promoted steroid use or helped anyone hide it.They advised their clients that speaking on the record could have legal ramifications for them down the road and to hold your tounge until you are forced to speak regardless of if you did steroids or not.Thats sensible legal advice.You must have forgot that its the leagues job to test for steroids and enforce all the steroid rules.You're belicheat comparison is so off base its ridiculous.Spygate never would have happened if Belichek didnt order the filming of the other teams sidelines even though the league had made it very clear that it was illegal.Thats cheating.The players union did what I hope any lawyer would do especially one representing hundreds of people.

[WoolyGoat]

maybe the analogy was off, but if a Patriots player (say Donte Stallworth) was caught with coke or was arrested for beating his wife...and Belichick told him to be quiet and kept saying "no comment" then continued to start him week in and week out, you'd be crying and calling him all sorts of names right now.

the baseball players union is worthless without baseball players, and baseball players are worthless without the game of baseball. the shit that the players union pulled set baseball back twenty years because of sheer greed and has damaged the integrity of the sport. sometimes you have to take one step backwards to take two forward, but the union wasn't willing to do that, and now all their players are being raked through the mud.

[BIRD33]

Who got arrested for steroids?This is all conjecture right now.I guess the union should run around like their hairs on fire because some trainer says he knows something.The mitchell report is pretty vague and isnt full of a lot of proof.One guy gets named because a trainer heard from another player that he did steroids.Who knows if thats true?Why would you even want to get involved until theres a reason to?You say the union set back the game I say the unions job is to worry about the players not the legacy of the game, thats the leagues job and the union would have been failing its clients if it didnt do the utmost to protect them.It wasnt union greed that set the league back it was owner greed.You can't believe they didnt know what was going on.They kept their mouth shut while their coffers filled up but it was thier job to protect the integrity of the game.Keep in mind the union didnt force anyone to not talk just advised against it.If someone wanted to clear their name nobody was stopping them.