10-06-2008, 03:06 PM
Went out to eat Saturday night and there was a 45 minute wait to get a table. I'm pretty sure the place would have been empty had the buyout not been approved... given that our economy is so horrible and all that. 
I'm sure glad the buyout went through....
10-06-2008, 04:03 PM
don't you realize the buyout saved our economy? everything will be fine for them.
10-06-2008, 04:05 PM
You do realize what repercussions we would have if we didnt do it, correct?Please list the consequences since you're sure the buy out was unneeded.
See You In Toledo
10-06-2008, 04:09 PM
No one knows what would have happened had it not gone through.. thats the whole point of it. They assume that our economy would have tanked but actually it might not have.
I bet more banks fail in the next year regardless of the buyout.
I bet more banks fail in the next year regardless of the buyout.
10-06-2008, 04:31 PM
BIRD33 Wrote:I feel bad for your kids because of how clueless you are.
x a gazillion
I realise that I have a past to break with--an accumulation of inertia, wrong, foolishness, rot, junk. A great need of clarification, of mindfulness, or rather, of no mind. A need to return to genuine practice, right effort. Need to push on the great doubt. Need for the spirit. Hang on to the clear light.
Thomas Merton
10-06-2008, 04:37 PM
Anhil8tor Wrote:No one knows what would have happened had it not gone through.. thats the whole point of it. They assume that our economy would have tanked but actually it might not have.
I bet more banks fail in the next year regardless of the buyout.
Have you read the papers.They do have a good idea.Its the choice between a downturn in the economy for a few years or a regression in the economy for god knows how long.Look the word regression up.I can't believe you act like you know what you're talking about with no research into it.Actually I can believe that.
See You In Toledo
10-06-2008, 06:21 PM
its good to see the stock market rebound from the bailout
10-06-2008, 06:27 PM
That wasnt the point of it.
It might rain later today, thanks bailout!
It might rain later today, thanks bailout!
See You In Toledo
10-06-2008, 06:39 PM
I thought it was to help the credit markets?
10-06-2008, 06:48 PM
If you think this was an instant fix rather than something to avoid a disaster you don't understand whats going on.
See You In Toledo
10-06-2008, 06:55 PM
My prediction is this...
In 12 weeks (give or take a few weeks) President Obama will read his teleprompter and announce that the bailout didn't work. He will announce a tax increase on the top 1% of Americas earners. That will go directly toward the bailout funds that were already spent. He will also announce a 15% tax on the pension plans of all those involved in the downturn ( banks, mortgage brokers, speculators, and refinancers , etc etc)...
In 12 weeks (give or take a few weeks) President Obama will read his teleprompter and announce that the bailout didn't work. He will announce a tax increase on the top 1% of Americas earners. That will go directly toward the bailout funds that were already spent. He will also announce a 15% tax on the pension plans of all those involved in the downturn ( banks, mortgage brokers, speculators, and refinancers , etc etc)...
10-06-2008, 07:01 PM
taken from the intraweb:
Why should responsible Americans be
forced to pay for the mistakes of others?
A bailout is morally irresponsible because it encourages reckless and irrational behavior. Here is a short list of the many "moral hazards" that a bailout enables:
* A bailout sends the wrong message about personal responsibility. It tells Americans in no uncertain terms that their financial decisions have no consequences; the government will pick up the tab.
* A bailout tells responsible Americans that they are suckers. If responsible American had been smart, they would have overextended themselves, purchased homes they could not afford, and taken out home equity loans based on the paper value of their property. Then, when the bill came due, they could just pass it to the government.
* A bailout allows banks, mortgage brokers, speculators, and refinancers to benefit from their abuse of the system. By doing so, it encourages these people to act irresponsibly in the future.
* A bailout will force Americans who acted responsibly to pay for those who did not. The average American -- who saved and scrimped for years to buy a house, but could not because speculators and over-extenders boosted home prices beyond affordability -- will now be forced to pay for the homes of those who were less scrupulous.
* A bailout will have a disproportionately negative affect on the minorities and the youth. Minorities and Americans under 35 (scroll down the link for 2007 data) are disproportionately underrepresented among homeowners. While non-hispanic whites enjoy a 75% homeownership rate, less than 50% of blacks and hispanics own homes. Similarly, only 42% of Americans under 35 own homes, compared to 80% for Americans 55 and older. A government bailout will perpetuate this race and generation gap by propping-up inflated house prices, thereby permanently pricing minorities and a generation of youth out of the market. And in a Kafkaesque irony, these folks will actually have to pay to prevent themselves from buying homes (i.e., taxes).
A bailout is also fiscally irresponsible:
* A bailout props up over-inflated housing prices, thereby putting homeownership out of reach for young families and responsible Americans who recognized that there was a bubble. The housing market needs the correction that the bailout seeks to prevent because the average American cannot afford to purchase a home. "You cannot be both in favor of affordable housing and in favor of propping up home prices!"
* A bailout creates perverse incentives. Rather than punishing their behavior, it encourages fiscal irresponsibility among bankers, mortgage brokers, speculators, and refinancers. These folks made money hand over fist in the past nine years (remember, homeborrowers who tapped their home equity received cash money to pay for Escalades, vacations, and stainless steel appliances; now they want you to pay for it!). Why change your behavior when you benefit from it?
* A bailout shifts the risks of falling market prices from financially secure banks to the American taxpayer. As a result, either taxes or the federal deficit will skyrocket! This is a government handout that we simply cannot afford and, moreover, it is wrong!
* A bailout is contrary to the free market principles upon which our economy is based. It jams a huge wrench into the market correction, with negative effects that will be both severe and long-term.
Why should responsible Americans be
forced to pay for the mistakes of others?
A bailout is morally irresponsible because it encourages reckless and irrational behavior. Here is a short list of the many "moral hazards" that a bailout enables:
* A bailout sends the wrong message about personal responsibility. It tells Americans in no uncertain terms that their financial decisions have no consequences; the government will pick up the tab.
* A bailout tells responsible Americans that they are suckers. If responsible American had been smart, they would have overextended themselves, purchased homes they could not afford, and taken out home equity loans based on the paper value of their property. Then, when the bill came due, they could just pass it to the government.
* A bailout allows banks, mortgage brokers, speculators, and refinancers to benefit from their abuse of the system. By doing so, it encourages these people to act irresponsibly in the future.
* A bailout will force Americans who acted responsibly to pay for those who did not. The average American -- who saved and scrimped for years to buy a house, but could not because speculators and over-extenders boosted home prices beyond affordability -- will now be forced to pay for the homes of those who were less scrupulous.
* A bailout will have a disproportionately negative affect on the minorities and the youth. Minorities and Americans under 35 (scroll down the link for 2007 data) are disproportionately underrepresented among homeowners. While non-hispanic whites enjoy a 75% homeownership rate, less than 50% of blacks and hispanics own homes. Similarly, only 42% of Americans under 35 own homes, compared to 80% for Americans 55 and older. A government bailout will perpetuate this race and generation gap by propping-up inflated house prices, thereby permanently pricing minorities and a generation of youth out of the market. And in a Kafkaesque irony, these folks will actually have to pay to prevent themselves from buying homes (i.e., taxes).
A bailout is also fiscally irresponsible:
* A bailout props up over-inflated housing prices, thereby putting homeownership out of reach for young families and responsible Americans who recognized that there was a bubble. The housing market needs the correction that the bailout seeks to prevent because the average American cannot afford to purchase a home. "You cannot be both in favor of affordable housing and in favor of propping up home prices!"
* A bailout creates perverse incentives. Rather than punishing their behavior, it encourages fiscal irresponsibility among bankers, mortgage brokers, speculators, and refinancers. These folks made money hand over fist in the past nine years (remember, homeborrowers who tapped their home equity received cash money to pay for Escalades, vacations, and stainless steel appliances; now they want you to pay for it!). Why change your behavior when you benefit from it?
* A bailout shifts the risks of falling market prices from financially secure banks to the American taxpayer. As a result, either taxes or the federal deficit will skyrocket! This is a government handout that we simply cannot afford and, moreover, it is wrong!
* A bailout is contrary to the free market principles upon which our economy is based. It jams a huge wrench into the market correction, with negative effects that will be both severe and long-term.
10-06-2008, 07:09 PM
Its all those things but the alternative is worse.I don't expect you to see through the tree's.
See You In Toledo
10-08-2008, 02:35 PM
I can't wait for the stock market to get the news that the bailout went through and we averted an economic bust with the buyout.
On a realted note only one congressman in Louisiana voted for the buyout. Mr Boustany you will not get my vote this November. Instead I will be voting for Mr. Don Cravins Jr.
http://senate.legis.state.la.us/CravinsJr/
On a realted note only one congressman in Louisiana voted for the buyout. Mr Boustany you will not get my vote this November. Instead I will be voting for Mr. Don Cravins Jr.
http://senate.legis.state.la.us/CravinsJr/
10-08-2008, 02:44 PM
WOW! Looks like I'm not the only one that was really really happy the buyout went through...
http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets...g-bailout/
According to the receipt from the St. Regis, the eight-day company retreat was a lavish one -- $139,000 was spent on hotel rooms, while even more money -- $147,301 -- was spent on banquets. Another $23,380 was spent on undisclosed spa treatments and another $6,939 was spent on golf. A full $9,980 was spent on room service and food and cocktails at the hotel lounge.
I'm not a golfer bird. Can you tell me how much golf you get for 7K of the governments money?
http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets...g-bailout/
According to the receipt from the St. Regis, the eight-day company retreat was a lavish one -- $139,000 was spent on hotel rooms, while even more money -- $147,301 -- was spent on banquets. Another $23,380 was spent on undisclosed spa treatments and another $6,939 was spent on golf. A full $9,980 was spent on room service and food and cocktails at the hotel lounge.
I'm not a golfer bird. Can you tell me how much golf you get for 7K of the governments money?
10-08-2008, 03:46 PM
Not much.I'm doing pinehurst in a few weeks and the total for the private jet, rooms at pinehurst and two rounds is $30,000 for 8 people for two days.
If you watched the debate last night you heard Obama mention this and how the goverment should recoup that money and the executives should be fired.Mccain was silent on this.
If you watched the debate last night you heard Obama mention this and how the goverment should recoup that money and the executives should be fired.Mccain was silent on this.
See You In Toledo
10-08-2008, 04:31 PM
BIRD33 Wrote:Not much.I'm doing pinehurst in a few weeks and the total for the private jet, rooms at pinehurst and two rounds is $30,000 for 8 people for two days.
If you watched the debate last night you heard Obama mention this and how the goverment should recoup that money and the executives should be fired.Mccain was silent on this.
So now that Mr. Obama agrees with me on the point that we shouldn't have bailed all those fucktards out.... do you agree with me?
10-08-2008, 04:41 PM
Anhil8tor Wrote:So now that Mr. Obama agrees with me on the point that we shouldn't have bailed all those fucktards out.... do you agree with me?
8 keep in mind the GOP's original bailout plan included protection for those million dollar CEO golden parachutes so they could fuck the company and still make millions when they quit.The Democrats are the ones who raised hell about that.Obama is saying if we bailed them out we need to watch their spending.He's been saying that from jump street.You are just realizing that a black guy is actually the more responsible pick for president.
Theres a great item about how the economy is making people rethink their normal racist voting practice because their money is more important than their racism.
An Obama supporter, who canvassed for the candidate in the working-class, white Philadelphia neighborhood of Fishtown recently, sends over an account that, in various forms, I've heard a lot in recent weeks.
"What's crazy is this," he writes. "I was blown away by the outright racism, but these folks are f***ing undecided. They would call him a n----r and mention how they don't know what to do because of the economy."
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1...ml?showall
See You In Toledo
10-08-2008, 05:50 PM
did anyone see waxman interview the lehman exec who made 480 million over the last few years 2001?
i love how they arranged the 20 million bonus 4 days before they went under.
i think his name was fould.
i usually think waxman is an ass, but i was cheering him on this time.
i love how they arranged the 20 million bonus 4 days before they went under.
i think his name was fould.
i usually think waxman is an ass, but i was cheering him on this time.
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